The Asian Commercial Sex Scene  

Go Back   The Asian Commercial Sex Scene > For stuff you can't discuss with your Facebook Account > International Field Reports

Notices

International Field Reports Had a great time around the world? Tell us about it here!

User Tag List

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
  #3316  
Old 18-07-2012, 06:25 PM
SEAJ SEAJ is offline
Samster
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,615
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My Reputation: Points: 2693 / Power: 17
SEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Events In CP

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastlizard View Post
Let me give my humble view on the 'bao' subject matter. In 2008, after a few trips to CP, I got ..................
If you asked if I would do it again, if the price is right and the girl is right, yes i would and i will still fxck around. It is still a 1 raw + many situation. Its not a commitment to screw that same hole. When I moved to HCMC, i did the same with a slightly different concept..
Very well written and thought out post. Thanks!
All in all, IMHO, there ARE reasons for guys to Bao their own little sweetheart - and many guys do sponsor girls very happily.

Thus this latest rumour going around and around in CP about gals being sponsored for RMB 30K++/month has really been getting on the nerves of a lot of our brethren who are sponsoring girls. They come to CP expecting to be spending a nice time with their SYT - and instead get an earful of hints, complaints and even demands that they up their stipend!

There's even stories going around of a gal having TWO sponsors, each paying her RMB 30K++ AND buying the gal houses! Yeah - right!!

Like I said, hearing this being spoken of so matter-of-factly (and lets face it, as "enlightened" as CP SYT's are, they truly believe it) is really so irritating and thus my originally asking if you guys from Singapore/Malaysia would be the ones doing this...for invariably, when I hear the story, it's always Malaysian/Singaporeans!

But then again, I AM from Hong Kong and if you guys hear it, the story will probably be changed to be the guy being from Hong Kong or Taiwan or wherever!! LOL

SEAN
  #3317  
Old 18-07-2012, 06:31 PM
kirin's Avatar
kirin kirin is offline
Samster
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My Reputation: Points: 15 / Power: 0
kirin deserves a Tiger! - He's a Good Guy
Re: Events In CP

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAJ View Post
Very well written and thought out post. Thanks!
All in all, IMHO, there ARE reasons for guys to Bao their own little sweetheart - and many guys do sponsor girls very happily.

Thus this latest rumour going around and around in CP about gals being sponsored for RMB 30K++/month has really been getting on the nerves of a lot of our brethren who are sponsoring girls. They come to CP expecting to be spending a nice time with their SYT - and instead get an earful of hints, complaints and even demands that they up their stipend!

There's even stories going around of a gal having TWO sponsors, each paying her RMB 30K++ AND buying the gal houses! Yeah - right!!

Like I said, hearing this being spoken of so matter-of-factly (and lets face it, as "enlightened" as CP SYT's are, they truly believe it) is really so irritating and thus my originally asking if you guys from Singapore/Malaysia would be the ones doing this...for invariably, when I hear the story, it's always Malaysian/Singaporeans!

But then again, I AM from Hong Kong and if you guys hear it, the story will probably be changed to be the guy being from Hong Kong or Taiwan or wherever!! LOL

SEAN

That's exactly what happened! I have always heard from the MMs that the "bao-er" is from HK or Taiwan, hardly hear of the "bao-er" from Singapore or Malaysia.
  #3318  
Old 18-07-2012, 06:34 PM
ReturntoKL ReturntoKL is offline
Samster (M)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My Reputation: Points: -7 / Power: 0
ReturntoKL is under Moderation till he learns how to behave
Re: Events In CP

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAJ View Post
Very well written and thought out post. Thanks!
All in all, IMHO, there ARE reasons for guys to Bao their own little sweetheart - and many guys do sponsor girls very happily.

Thus this latest rumour going around and around in CP about gals being sponsored for RMB 30K++/month has really been getting on the nerves of a lot of our brethren who are sponsoring girls. They come to CP expecting to be spending a nice time with their SYT - and instead get an earful of hints, complaints and even demands that they up their stipend!

There's even stories going around of a gal having TWO sponsors, each paying her RMB 30K++ AND buying the gal houses! Yeah - right!!

Like I said, hearing this being spoken of so matter-of-factly (and lets face it, as "enlightened" as CP SYT's are, they truly believe it) is really so irritating and thus my originally asking if you guys from Singapore/Malaysia would be the ones doing this...for invariably, when I hear the story, it's always Malaysian/Singaporeans!

But then again, I AM from Hong Kong and if you guys hear it, the story will probably be changed to be the guy being from Hong Kong or Taiwan or wherever!! LOL

SEAN

All I can say is that these sponsors are dumb asses!!! I never need to support them and few of them quit their jobs and move to other daytime jobs now. I guess if they can sponsor their gals 20 or 30k per month, I bet they must be some old bastards hahaha
  #3319  
Old 18-07-2012, 06:43 PM
3dee's Avatar
3dee 3dee is offline
Samster
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,023
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My Reputation: Points: 727 / Power: 19
3dee is a splendid one to behold3dee is a splendid one to behold3dee is a splendid one to behold3dee is a splendid one to behold3dee is a splendid one to behold3dee is a splendid one to behold3dee is a splendid one to behold
Re: Events In CP

Quote:
Originally Posted by sex crusader View Post
化妝店聽來的最新消息~mm們開始要上班了!
偶的姐妹淘今天剛從化妝店下班
小妖就趕緊打聽消息
估計這陣颶風開始慢慢消退了
因為五點多的時候來了四個mm化妝
其中有一位是部長
聽到她們聊天說
現在開始 都一一通知mm們上班了
這樣看來 好天氣離cp不遠了!
繼續期待好消息哦!
小妖最新天氣預告 7月17日 19:13分
taikor, this is my version...

昨晚没开演唱会,得以悠闲的在中元街漫步,

走着走着,突然天空横光一闪,星光乱射!

于是我一声喝彩,登高一看,

发现北方贪狼星杀气如虹,来势汹汹!

而南方的紫微星却薄弱无光,暗淡如灰。

如此看来,南方的多灾多难似乎已成定局。。。

然而,回首再望,东南方的天机星光芒待蓄,

似乎是准备为紫微星伸于援手,实乃是危机中有转机!

冥冥中皆有定数,然而定数中存有变数,此乃常平之现卦也!

小三最新天气预测 7月18日 18:43分
__________________
---- next cp trip: sometimes in august ----

The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed.
  #3320  
Old 18-07-2012, 06:56 PM
SEAJ SEAJ is offline
Samster
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,615
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My Reputation: Points: 2693 / Power: 17
SEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Events In CP

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirin View Post
That's exactly what happened! I have always heard from the MMs that the "bao-er" is from HK or Taiwan, hardly hear of the "bao-er" from Singapore or Malaysia.
LOL! Yup...just as I suspect!!

On the other hand though, I have personally noticed that you guys from SE Asia do splurge when you come to CP! Us guys from Hong Kong who comes there pretty regularly, well, we "pace" ourselves and would hardly ever go for all the High-spending. But I guess that since you guys come from so much further away and that you do NOT get to come over as often as we do - well...I can understand.

Some ABC's, CBC's and other places BC's are also quite free spending when they're in town. I heard that a couple weeks ago some CBC's from Calgary had wanted to 'BREAK THE RECORD' for spending the most at OuYa - and managed to blow over RMB 25K just for the KTV costs that night between the 5 of them.

The funny thing is that they really did not know that some locals, government guys being entertained, big factory owners would NOT consider spending such as being so out of the ordinary! These guys really got suckered into thinking that they broke some kind of record. LMAO!!

SEAN - Yeah, all sorts do come to CP!!
  #3321  
Old 18-07-2012, 06:58 PM
sex crusader's Avatar
sex crusader sex crusader is offline
Samster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,598
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 239 Post(s)
My Reputation: Points: 24447 / Power: 27
sex crusader has a reputation beyond reputesex crusader has a reputation beyond reputesex crusader has a reputation beyond reputesex crusader has a reputation beyond reputesex crusader has a reputation beyond reputesex crusader has a reputation beyond reputesex crusader has a reputation beyond reputesex crusader has a reputation beyond reputesex crusader has a reputation beyond reputesex crusader has a reputation beyond reputesex crusader has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Events In CP

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dee View Post
taikor, this is my version...

昨晚没开演唱会,得以悠闲的在中元街漫步,

走着走着,突然天空横光一闪,星光乱射!

于是我一声喝彩,登高一看,

发现北方贪狼星杀气如虹,来势汹汹!

而南方的紫微星却薄弱无光,暗淡如灰。

如此看来,南方的多灾多难似乎已成定局。。。

然而,回首再望,东南方的天机星光芒待蓄,

似乎是准备为紫微星伸于援手,实乃是危机中有转机!

冥冥中皆有定数,然而定数中存有变数,此乃常平之现卦也!

小三最新天气预测 7月18日 18:43分
大哥您好有墨水哦!但是我就是看不明白您在写啥啊!:d
  #3322  
Old 18-07-2012, 07:09 PM
3dee's Avatar
3dee 3dee is offline
Samster
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,023
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My Reputation: Points: 727 / Power: 19
3dee is a splendid one to behold3dee is a splendid one to behold3dee is a splendid one to behold3dee is a splendid one to behold3dee is a splendid one to behold3dee is a splendid one to behold3dee is a splendid one to behold
Re: Events In CP

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAJ View Post
Thus this latest rumour going around and around in CP about gals being sponsored for RMB 30K++/month has really been getting on the nerves of a lot of our brethren who are sponsoring girls. They come to CP expecting to be spending a nice time with their SYT - and instead get an earful of hints, complaints and even demands that they up their stipend!
There's even stories going around of a gal having TWO sponsors, each paying her RMB 30K++ AND buying the gal houses! Yeah - right!!
bro, to my very limited experience in cp, and to my super limited knowledge about cp girls, and to my rumour writing in this forum, i rumourly said, not all the news are fake.

- i happen to know a girl who is being packed by a big tawkay and open the small restaurant for her, buy her a benz. ironically, when her delivery staff is busy, she will drive her benz to deliver the food! what a exclusive delivery!

- i also happen to know a girl, her “packing man” bought two units of apartment for her in cp in 2 years.

- and, i also happen to know a girl, after seeing a guy for two months, the guy decided to pack her and bought her an unit apartment at jinhui, things happen in less than 3 months.

and.. and.. and...


and, if you want to know more about "bao" girl, ask our new Bao King, who created unbeatable record in one of cp 5 star ktv last month.

here is the story goes...
when this taikor try to sian an AM, the AM approaches her to buy a mooncake voucher, his reply was: "我不要一张,我要跟你买二十张!"

guess what is the result? of course, the AM was at his room ultimately!

with this kind of big tawkay in town, what is 30K about??
__________________
---- next cp trip: sometimes in august ----

The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed.
  #3323  
Old 18-07-2012, 08:50 PM
kirin's Avatar
kirin kirin is offline
Samster
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My Reputation: Points: 15 / Power: 0
kirin deserves a Tiger! - He's a Good Guy
Re: Events In CP

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAJ View Post
LOL! Yup...just as I suspect!!

On the other hand though, I have personally noticed that you guys from SE Asia do splurge when you come to CP! Us guys from Hong Kong who comes there pretty regularly, well, we "pace" ourselves and would hardly ever go for all the High-spending. But I guess that since you guys come from so much further away and that you do NOT get to come over as often as we do - well...I can understand.

Some ABC's, CBC's and other places BC's are also quite free spending when they're in town. I heard that a couple weeks ago some CBC's from Calgary had wanted to 'BREAK THE RECORD' for spending the most at OuYa - and managed to blow over RMB 25K just for the KTV costs that night between the 5 of them.

The funny thing is that they really did not know that some locals, government guys being entertained, big factory owners would NOT consider spending such as being so out of the ordinary! These guys really got suckered into thinking that they broke some kind of record. LMAO!!

SEAN - Yeah, all sorts do come to CP!!
Bro, your analysis is spot on!

1. we generally don't or can't come over as often
2. cost we already incurred (airfare as one of the component)
3. permission from OC (Commanding Office aka wife) only gets harder to come up with each subsequent trip;
and maybe some other reasons others encountered, normally means we tend to stinge a little less when we are in CP.

However, with each trip we will also tend to learn from the times and occasions that we had been had as suckers. Therefore, I would say the more experienced the chiongster, the less likely they will "throw money into the sea" as you would say.

On the subject of "bao-ing" a CP gal, god knows I have been down that road and I can only say, that is the fastest way for things between the two lovebirds to turn sour, however good a relationship you have with a CP gal.
  #3324  
Old 18-07-2012, 09:20 PM
SEAJ SEAJ is offline
Samster
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,615
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My Reputation: Points: 2693 / Power: 17
SEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Events In CP

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dee View Post
bro, to my very limited experience in cp, and to my super .........
- i happen to know a girl who............
and, if you want to know more about "bao" girl, ask our new Bao King, who created unbeatable record in one of cp 5 star ktv last month.
here is the story goes...
when this taikor ...............
with this kind of big tawkay in town, what is 30K about??
Ha-HAH!!!
So..... it IS Singaporean Big Swinging Dicks who's spoiling the market for the rest of us!!! LOL!
Getting all these l'il CP SYT's to just go pooh pooh at us regular Joe Blow mongers!! HAH!!!

Wellll.... actually, there IS quite a few BSD's .....of all nationalities.... coming over to CP these days, not just Singaporeans!
Just pulling you guys' legs a bit...hope you don't mind my being tongue in cheek!

And actually, these BSD's DO make it harder for us regular Joe's...as the gals, mommies, managers do have a tendency to be a bit complacent with us.

Worst are those KTV's which caters to the real big shot Factory owners, government officials etc like Crown Prince and Royal Garden outside of CP proper.
These places .... man....!! I show up with my BSD friends in their limousines with separate car for body guards etc - EVERYBODY's on their knees whilst kissing our asses! Next week I show up with just my regular mongering buddies .... man.... I felt as if we all had a deadly virulent virus!

The short pants and sandals some of my friends had on didn't help, and neither did the fact that one of them was a Laowei (ooops, here I guess we use the term Ang Mo). They saw us and right away they figured that we ain't gonna be spending money like drunken sailors nor are we gonna be return clients!!

And why would we need to HAVE TO spend like drunken sailors....just to impress these parasites? The hell with them!!
Good thing that most big shot locals etc actually consider that Chang Ping is too low class a place for them to go to party (it was well known as being a place where the cross-border truck drivers go to/keep their mistresses prior to 1997) - and thus the CP KTV's are stuck with us regular Joe's!!
LOL!

SEAN - mongers come in all manners!!
  #3325  
Old 18-07-2012, 09:23 PM
trdtsh's Avatar
trdtsh trdtsh is offline
Samster
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
My Reputation: Points: 177 / Power: 16
trdtsh is a Helpful and Caring Samstertrdtsh is a Helpful and Caring Samster
Re: Events In CP

Interesting new discussion on this thread started by SEAJ about boa-ing CP gals.

From what I hear from the regulars I know who chiong CP/DG/ZH alot, bao-ing a MM or AM or Princess is between RMB 5k-12k. Anything more I guess is just the person boa-ing feeling rich and generous.

But that's what I hear only, since I'm not very familiar myself. Maybe prices went up due to inflation?
  #3326  
Old 18-07-2012, 09:43 PM
noname123's Avatar
noname123 noname123 is offline
Samster
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,706
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
My Reputation: Points: 1230 / Power: 22
noname123 has much to be proud ofnoname123 has much to be proud ofnoname123 has much to be proud ofnoname123 has much to be proud ofnoname123 has much to be proud ofnoname123 has much to be proud ofnoname123 has much to be proud ofnoname123 has much to be proud ofnoname123 has much to be proud of
Re: Events In CP

Quote:
Originally Posted by decent02 View Post
Recently there are discussions here on Baoed gals from CP
why get a mistress from CP when there are plenty of gals to choose in CP
Really dun understand
furthermore my friend has upzzed mistress of hongkie and taiwanese in CP
so you give them 10k - 15k rmb per month and they fxxk behind your back
for what ...
This is what I call money too much dun know what to put... So they prefer to put in CP's MMs pussies
__________________
Reality is cruel...
  #3327  
Old 18-07-2012, 09:53 PM
Yoshi Chiong Yoshi Chiong is offline
Samster
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My Reputation: Points: 140 / Power: 15
Yoshi Chiong deserves two Tigers! - He's a Great GuyYoshi Chiong deserves two Tigers! - He's a Great Guy
Re: Events In CP

My Girl ask for RMB 10K to Bao her. I did give once an even went to her home town to visit her family. After that kind of regret as she still secretly work
Which I found out later. Though she still insist she did not. Anyway, those mm are really witty. Anyway, just a lesson for me. U can't really Bao them lah. They still secretly go and work. Just that meaning of Bao is just a VVIP treatment. It is like a Gold or platinum membership. But be aware that there maybe other members too.
  #3328  
Old 18-07-2012, 09:55 PM
SEAJ SEAJ is offline
Samster
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,615
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My Reputation: Points: 2693 / Power: 17
SEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Events In CP

Quote:
Originally Posted by noname123 View Post
This is what I call money too much dun know what to put... So they prefer to put in CP's MMs pussies
Love...and lust...works in mysterious ways.

Not for any one of us to make any judgement one way or the other.

And keeping a mistress AT REASONABLE RATES really does not cost much more - especially if you've got a high sex drive and needs "it" regularly.

But you're of course correct, if a guy is over-paying - as is the case with these rumoured RMB 30K/month packages.
In CP, 30K/month is just ridiculous IMHO.

SEAN
  #3329  
Old 18-07-2012, 09:59 PM
noname123's Avatar
noname123 noname123 is offline
Samster
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,706
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
My Reputation: Points: 1230 / Power: 22
noname123 has much to be proud ofnoname123 has much to be proud ofnoname123 has much to be proud ofnoname123 has much to be proud ofnoname123 has much to be proud ofnoname123 has much to be proud ofnoname123 has much to be proud ofnoname123 has much to be proud ofnoname123 has much to be proud of
Re: Events In CP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi Chiong View Post
My Girl ask for RMB 10K to Bao her. I did give once an even went to her home town to visit her family. After that kind of regret as she still secretly work
Which I found out later. Though she still insist she did not. Anyway, those mm are really witty. Anyway, just a lesson for me. U can't really Bao them lah. They still secretly go and work. Just that meaning of Bao is just a VVIP treatment. It is like a Gold or platinum membership. But be aware that there maybe other members too.
Sorry hor....can ask why you can GIVE RMB 10K so easily???

Drunk??? Too much money???
__________________
Reality is cruel...
  #3330  
Old 18-07-2012, 10:01 PM
SEAJ SEAJ is offline
Samster
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,615
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My Reputation: Points: 2693 / Power: 17
SEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond reputeSEAJ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Events In CP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi Chiong View Post
My Girl ask for RMB 10K to Bao her. I did give once an even went to her home town to visit her family. After that kind of regret as she still secretly work
Which I found out later. Though she still insist she did not. ........
Sorry to hear about your bad experience.

Bao'ing a girl IMHO is not a science but a very finely balanced art. There is no hard and fast rule as to which situation warrants Bao'ing a gal, and even if your heart - and dick - really wants to Bao a particular girl, you must first figure out if she is a suitable candidate AND if bao'ing her would be "good" for both of you.

And I emphasize good for BOTH, for if she goes into the arrangement with ideas way different from you - well...it for sure will end in disaster for both.

Just my POV

SEAN
Advert Space Available
Bypass censorship with https://1.1.1.1

Cloudflare 1.1.1.1
Closed Thread



Bookmarks

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +8. The time now is 10:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copywrong © Samuel Leong 2006 ~ 2025 ph