Benzodiazepine Dependency

[Tentaikun]

Been having bad anxiety and need more and more benzodiazepine. Those antidepressants doesn't really work and benzodiazepine helps but hard to get. Feel like trying buy online but scare not real thing. Any recommendation what should i do?

Thanks.

[sammyboyfor]

Originally Posted by Tentaikun

Been having bad anxiety and need more and more benzodiazepine. Those antidepressants doesn't really work and benzodiazepine helps but hard to get. Feel like trying buy online but scare not real thing. Any recommendation what should i do?

Thanks.

We have been through this issue before in another thread and my advice has been consistent....get off benzos and other mind altering drugs at the earliest opportunity.

Long term use can lead to all sorts of devastating side effects the worst of all being a vastly increased risk of dementia.

Anxiety can be dealt with a lot more effectively by understanding how the parasympathetic nervous system works and adopting mindfulness and breathing techniques to calm the mind.

Anti depressants can cause long term harm too the most devastating of all is permanent loss of sexual function. Google "PSSD" for more information.

[sammyboyfor]

Originally Posted by Tentaikun

Been having bad anxiety and need more and more benzodiazepine. Those antidepressants doesn't really work and benzodiazepine helps but hard to get. Feel like trying buy online but scare not real thing. Any recommendation what should i do?

Thanks.

https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/vie...-risk-dementia

Consequences of Benzodiazepine Use

The use of benzodiazepines is known to be associated with poor outcomes.3,6-8 One study found that benzodiazepine use was associated with greater risk for hospitalizations, emergency department visits, outpatient visits, and higher health care costs.3 Another study found the overdose death rate increased due to benzodiazepine use from 0.58 to 3.07 per 100,000 adults between 1996 and 2013.6 Benzodiazepines use is also associated with an increased risk of falls among older adults.7 Additionally, the use of benzodiazepines is associated with a 60% to 80% increase in the risk of traffic accidents.8 The co-ingestion of benzodiazepines and alcohol is associated with a 7.7-fold increased risk for traffic accidents.

Table. Studies Showing Positive Association Between Benzodiazepine Use and the Risk of Dementia

Now, there is also emerging evidence that the use of benzodiazepines may increase the risk for developing dementia among older adults.9-11 This review evaluates the evidence from the literature on the association between benzodiazepine use and the risk for developing dementia.

Exploring the Literature and Evidence

A review of the literature indicates that there is a total of 15 studies that have evaluated the association between benzodiazepine use and the development of dementia.12-26 Four of the 15 studies were published prior to 201012-15 and 11 of the studies were published since 2010.16-26

Although there are no randomized controlled trials (RCTs) looking at the association between benzodiazepine use and the risk for dementia, 6 prospective cohort studies,12,14,17,22,23,25 6 case control studies,13,15,16,20,21,24 and 1 retrospective cohort study18 explore the relationship. Two studies had both a prospective cohort and a case control component.19,26 Three of the studies were conducted in France,13,19,22 3 in Taiwan,15,16,18 3 in Canada,14,20,25 2 in the United Kingdom,17, 21 and 1 each in Sweden,14 the United States,23 Switzerland,24 and Denmark.26

Of the 15 studies, 8 showed a positive association between benzodiazepine use and the development of dementia.13,15,16-20,22 Of these 8 studies, 2 were prospective cohort studies,17,22 4 were case control studies,13,15,16,20 and 1 was a retrospective cohort study.18 One positive study had a prospective cohort and a case control arm to the study.19

[sammyboyfor]

Originally Posted by Tentaikun

Been having bad anxiety and need more and more benzodiazepine. Those antidepressants doesn't really work and benzodiazepine helps but hard to get. Feel like trying buy online but scare not real thing. Any recommendation what should i do?

Thanks.

https://www.pssd-uk.org/what-is-pssd

"Post-SSRI sexual dysfunction (PSSD) is an iatrogenic condition which can arise following antidepressant use, in which sexual function does not completely return to normal after the discontinuation of SSRIs, SNRIs and some tricyclic antidepressants." (Bahrick AS, 2006, 2008).

Some people develop sexual side effects on antidepressants which either remain in full, or don’t resolve completely, when the drug is stopped. For others, the condition only appears when they actually stop the medication, or begin to reduce the dosage.

PSSD affects both men and women. It can happen after only a few days exposure to an antidepressant and can persist for months, years, or indefinitely. There is no known cure.

Symptoms of PSSD can include:

Reduced genital sensation / genital anesthesia

Erectile dysfunction / decreased vaginal lubrication

Delayed or inability to orgasm (anorgasmia)

Pleasureless, weak or “muted” orgasms

Decreased libido

Reduced response to sexual stimuli

Decreased or lack of nocturnal erections

Premature ejaculation

Reduced nipple sensitivity

Soft glans

Some sufferers experience a noticeable reduction in tactile sensation – describing their genitals as feeling less sensitive or numb, as if exposed to an anesthetic. Others perceive little or no change in tactile sensation, but notice a reduction in sexual sensation. These problems can also be accompanied by reduced nipple sensitivity.

Orgasm is typically experienced with a decreased or loss of pleasurable feeling, often referred to as a pleasureless or muted orgasm. There can also be noticeably weaker muscle contractions. Although men and women with PSSD often have more difficulty in achieving orgasm, premature ejaculation can also develop after stopping an SSRI (Adson DDE, Kotlyar M 2003).
Although less commonly reported, some male sufferers develop an issue in which the shaft of the penis becomes erect but the glans remains flaccid. "

The Term ‘PSSD’ is misleading, as symptoms experienced by sufferers are not limited to the aforementioned sexual symptoms. Many people also suffer with:

Persistent anhedonia (the inability to feel pleasure)

emotional blunting

sleep problems

akathisia (a movement disorder that makes it difficult to sit still)

involuntary muscle movements

muscle wastage

Loss of drive/motivation

memory problems and other cognitive problems

shrinkage of genitals and testes.

There are reports of people suffering for 10, 15, 20 years with no relief in sight.

Unfortunately, the fact that sexual dysfunction can apparently be a symptom of depression has led to the frequent assumption that patients reporting the above symptoms must be suffering from depression or anxiety rather than there being any physiological changes in brain and body having occurred during their treatment and withdrawal from antidepressants.

There has been little in the way of medical research to attempt to explore the issue further.

[Ronn]

Originally Posted by sammyboyfor

https://www.pssd-uk.org/what-is-pssd

Decreased libido

sleep problems

Loss of drive/motivation

memory problems and other cognitive problems

I believe/feel I am now experiencing symptoms of the above, minus the sleeping problems which I always had.

I have had insomnia since young, suffering from all 3 forms of it.
Diazepam, also a benzodiazepine, was one of the few sleepings aids that works sometimes(dormicum has no effect on me), but due to tolerance, need larger and larger doses to work, so had to on and off on it.

All the info above are new to me, and its not good news.

I need to go check the lesser known side effects of the other pills I am taking, one of which is hunger.

Insomnia sucks, and I have anxiety too among others.
Can only rough it out so much.

Sexual intercourse and massage are the only 2 non medicinal activities that contains it.

Too bad no subsidies for it.

[sammyboyfor]

Originally Posted by Ronn

I believe/feel I am now experiencing symptoms of the above, minus the sleeping problems which I always had.

I have had insomnia since young, suffering from all 3 forms of it.
Diazepam, also a benzodiazepine, was one of the few sleepings aids that works sometimes(dormicum has no effect on me), but due to tolerance, need larger and larger doses to work, so had to on and off on it.

All the info above are new to me, and its not good news.

I need to go check the lesser known side effects of the other pills I am taking, one of which is hunger.

Insomnia sucks, and I have anxiety too among others.
Can only rough it out so much.

Sexual intercourse and massage are the only 2 non medicinal activities that contains it.

Too bad no subsidies for it.

Diazepam should not be taken for more than 2 weeks max. It is not for long term use. It also causes ED. I have taken it in the past out of ignorance back in the 90s when I did not know any better and trusted the system and was non functional for the whole 10 days I was on the stuff for nothing more than a head cold. It was prescribed for nothing more than to help me sleep with a stuffy nose.

Once you become addicted to this drug it is hell to get off. Some have had to endure an extended stay in a detox centre in order to get back to normal.

There is a treasure trove of helpful information on the internet regarding how to heal your body and mind naturally. You won't be told of any of these gems by your doctor as the pharma industry sponsors the vast majority of medical schools and institutions throughout the Western world.

Modern medicine has its place and has done wonders when it comes to mechanical fixes for broken bodies eg hip replacements, heart valve repair, bypass surgery etc. However for chronic diseases numerous drugs that are big money spinners for the drug companies are of dubious value at best and often cause more issues than they solve ... eg statins, hypertension medications, diabetes drugs etc.

The saying "we are what we eat" has a lot of truth in it and a simple change of diet and lifestyle can do more than any chemical cure.

You should make a life changing decision TODAY to cut out all your prescription medication from your routine and seek to heal yourself from naturally occurring recipes that do just as good a job and a fraction of the cost minus all the harmful side effects.

eg

[Ronn]

I have not developed a dependency or addiction to Diazepam through the years, most probably cos it only works sometimes, and when it does not work anymore, I get off it for a week to 2 weeks for the tolerance to wear off.

I have quetiapine for my insomnia, which I take 1 pill 2-3 times a week(supposed to be 2x7 per week), and Diazepam once a week.

Will adjust my diet to include more nitric oxide rich foods and observe if any improvements in a couple of months.

Thanks for your advice.

[ToothFlosser]

Hello! I'm new here so please bear with me as I'd like to chime in and help a bro out since I have also suffered from something similar and may have some relevant advice - though I admit I didn't expect to see these kind of issues being discussed here of all places

To give you some context - I have been through a rollercoaster of both anxiety and depression/anhedonia for the past 2 years, and I have made a recovery without needing any kind of controlled medication (though I DO still need something, more on that later).
Do note however that I am NOT a doctor, so please do take what I say with a grain of salt.

Firstly and most importantly, like the other senior bros here have said, if your meds are not helping as much as before - get OFF them ASAP
If you take them consistently and they're not helping you feel better or their effects are waning off, then it's more than likely that it's screwing you up instead and you're better off gradually stopping the medication or just stopping cold turkey.
There are other more natural (and less controlled) methods of fixing these issues which I will explain further below.



TLDR; Addiction, anhedonia, depression or anxiety usually stems from some kind of neurotransmitter imbalance - the (im)balance of serotonin vs dopamine, which is why a lot of anxiolytic (anti-anxiety), antipsychotic, antidepressant meds all aim to work on those specific neurotransmitters and counterbalance them to one side or the other, so if you take these meds TOO often, you end up 'overtilting' the balance and you end up with other mental issues.

What worked for me - Aminos, but not like those in typical protein shakes.
(Note: you don't need to visit a doctor to buy amino supplements)

For me, I need to take the amino acid specific to either dopamine or serotonin ALONE - meaning I cannot take those supplements that give me a group of aminos.
I either take L-tyrosine to fix my dopamine levels back up, or I take L-tryptophan (or 5HTP for me) to up my serotonin (see image below for how this works).
For my case I only need to 'nudge' my serotonin back up every 4 days or so - I don't need to take it everyday.

My problem was that I was serotonin deficient due to an over-dependency on a long term tricyclic anti-depressant I was taking, which was for migraine headaches, which I stopped using due to other issues, which THEN caused a huge rift in my serotonin supply, which also then indirectly knocked my dopamine levels down due to the see-saw effect that kinda binds all these neurotransmitters together, which THEN finally caused depression.

BUT when I took too much of what was supposed to fix my serotonin (the aminos), I get anxiety from too much of it, which was why I only take it every 4 days or so, instead of everyday. This was also proof to me that something was working from taking the aminos, albeit a little too much.

If this sounds like you, I suggest you google the 'amino acid protocol reddit' - it should take you to a reddit thread explaining how you should go about doing this. You can PM me if you need help clarifying anything from there.



However, if this does NOT sound like you: GABA is probably your root cause

I am not familiar with GABA deficiencies, but given that you've been taking benzos AND especially IF you notice that they've gotten less potent the more you take them (even though they DO work to some extent), then I highly suspect this is your root problem, because from what I understand benzos enhance the action of GABA, and similar to drugs that act on dopamine and serotonin, the more you use them, the more your body desensitizes to it and additionally also becomes dependant on it over time.

You should try googling natural methods of increasing GABA and stop taking benzos.
Try shopping for GABA supplements/vitamins.
Like dopamine/serotonin, there are also other vitamins you need along with them, like B-vitamins, magnesium, etc.

You can buy supplements (including aminos) from completely legal online shops like iherb, there's also a sg version of that site.
From what I've seen, most of their stuff ships from Korea.

Longer explanations below



The drugs that psychiatrists prescribe you NEED to be frequently dose-adjusted (with frequent visits to the psychiatrists themselves) otherwise you risk going to the opposite side of the mental illness spectrum (i.e. you go from anxiety to severe anhedonia/depression/demotivational issues or worse).

Why? Because these meds are very strong and WILL mess up your neurotransmitters if taken too much or at a too high of a dosage.
In fact, if you read the leaflets packed in most antidepressants, it will caution you that while it is used to treat depression, it can also ironically CAUSE depression, and this is VERY true and happens more commonly than you think, which is why a lot of people have no choice but to suffer through the cycling of different medications and different dosages over several months or even years before their issues are finally brought under control.

Drug addiction is in the same ballpark as depression/anhedonia/demotivational issues - dopamine is the pleasure chemical, the more you shoot, the more dopamine your body (initially) makes, up until the point it 'gives up' because the drugs you take everyday keep providing you dopamine in excess - but the body has limiters in place and the more you use this dopamine pathway, the more its desensitized and the more amounts of drug you will need to feel the same amount of high as before, which gets harder and harder since your body has given up on making dopamine naturally, relying completely on the drug to supply it, which is why quitting the drug feels even worse and makes you want to kill yourself, because your dopamine has reached rock bottom and you no longer have the 'drive chemical', dopamine, to drive your will to live and motivate you to do things.

This also applies to other forms of addiction, like porn addiction - when you pcc multiple times a day, everyday, your next pcc will feel less and less pleasurable, to the point you NEED to pcc more often and to even more extreme content to feel any semblance of pleasure.

If any of the above sounds like you, please look up a youtube video called "anhedonia after addiction" - this will clarify a lot of what you're going through.



Additionally also keep in mind that serotonin is the fuel used for melatonin, which is important for both sleep regulation and sleep quality - i.e. if your sleep is crap you won't be able to 'heal' as quite as properly as before, and you will wake up everyday feeling like you need MORE sleep even after you've slept for 12 hours (which feels the same as sleeping 4, 6 or 8 hours of sleep if you are serotonin/melatonin deficient).

This is made worse by the fact that what lets you deal with stress is serotonin itself, and not just mental stress, bodily stress (from unhealthy foods, etc.).
All this leads to an endless cycle of your body trying to catch up and constantly failing to recover and rest, giving you all kinds of issues related to chronic stress and chronic fatigue.

Some key pointers to takeaway:

1. There are natural ways to up your neurotransmitters that do not rely on controlled drugs
2. Drugs that act on neurotransmitters like GABA, dopamine, serotonin CAN cause your body to build a tolerance/dependancy requiring you to stop taking it or only take it every few days or so in order to maintain maximum efficacy
3. Dopamine and serotonin are two sides of the same coin, with serotonin being 'heavier' in that its precursors (trytophan) is bigger in molecular size/weight than dopamine's precursors (tyrosine)

Dopamine deficiency symptoms:

• depression
• anhedonia
• loss of motivation/fun/pleasure (what was fun feels less fun)
• loss of drive/sex drive
• cognitive issues
• memory formation/retention issues (i.e. learning issues)

Serotonin deficiency symptoms:

• anxiety (of the overwhelming kind, like the world is ending tomorrow kind)
• panic attacks
• insomnia (or oversleeping because you can never get enough sleep)
• chronic fatigue
• panic attacks
• increased susceptibility to stress (less able to cope with all kinds of stress, be it mental or bodily/toxin stress)
• increased irritability

[sammyboyfor]

All are welcome to continue this excellent thread. Your contributions will be most welcome.

Don't let the pharma companies rip you off with the snake oil they peddle. The drug companies no longer have a monopoly and they non longer control the narrative with their dubious publications.

[devil_jeff]

Any bros has experience with Propanalol 10mg for anxiety related to public speaking? Been prescribed this recently by my doctor, mine is situational so he recommend this to keep the physical symptoms of anxiety under control.

[sammyboyfor]

Originally Posted by devil_jeff

Any bros has experience with Propanalol 10mg for anxiety related to public speaking? Been prescribed this recently by my doctor, mine is situational so he recommend this to keep the physical symptoms of anxiety under control.

Take a toastmaster's course and your problem is solved.

[Ronn]

The thing for me is, is what I am experiencing due to long term sleep deprivation, age, or side effects of pills, or something normal that I am overthinking.
The thing I am most concerned and worried about is short term memory where I cannot remember if I did a certain thing 10-30 mins ago.
When I was younger, it happened time to time.
When something becomes routine, you just auto do it without much thought, but sometimes you wonder, did I do it this time ?

Bummers.

[Ronn]

It's very ironic how when I was much younger and insomnia was an issue for me, it was so hard to get any form of prescription sleeping aids.
Had to make trips to Malaysia to get what I needed.

Now that I am older, I actually turned down the doctor's medication, as I still have prescription sleeping aids medication left over from 2022. And another 2 or 3 packs of medication from previous visits.

Doctor is encouraging me to take the Benzos if I am stressed or anxious, but it barely has any effects on me.

High stress period in life, maybe time to dump it all aside and take a vacation by myself.
Got to have a life, before I can live.